Fully Committed, Fully Confident: An Interview with Michael L. Penn, Jr., MD/PhD

Sigolène Ortega, SACNAS exhibiting and advertising manager, recently listened to a speech by Dr. Michael Penn, Jr., at a University of California event. A senior manager in Business Development at Genentech, Dr. Penn has devoted much time to mentoring and advising students during his career. In 2001, he co-founded Building Diversity in Science (BDIS) with colleague Dr. Frederick Moore. The mission of BDIS is to use science as a platform to empower underrepresented minority students. Inspired by his words on building confidence, Sigolene connected with Dr. Penn for a telephone interview.

Sigolène Ortega for SACNAS News (SN): In your educational trajectory, what has been essential in building your confidence?

Michael Penn (MP):

The first concept to get out there is that confidence waxes and wanes—it is not something you build and it simply just stays withyou forever. Confidence has ups and downs.

The main things are plain old hard work and being honest with myself about whether or not I have put in the work. Nothing has the potential to build confidence more than knowing that I put forth my best effort. The corollary is being able to do self-reflection. Let’s say I did put in my best effort, and it didn’t produce the results that I wanted or expected. Then I have to be able to troubleshoot.

One thing that helped me build my confidence when I was in school was that I figured out how I learn best. For example, a critical way I learn is by taking notes. Actually, not just taking notes, but taking notes and then rewriting the concepts into my own words. I’m also much more of a book learner—reading things and learning that way—versus lectures.

My anatomy class in the first year of medical school was absolutely overwhelming. The volume of information and the setup of the lab—large groups and lots of background chatter—made me feel like everyone knew everything and I knew nothing. It was a stressful environment and finally, after too many weeks of feeling totally exasperated, I decided to stop going to lab. Instead, I spent time in the library studying…more focused and intently than I could in the lab. I attended every review session possible and that was what necessary for me to pass anatomy! [Laughs] So, it is being able to do self-analysis or reflection, and to make an assessment of how you learn—and then trusting in and following that.

SN: So hard work builds confidence?

MP:

Yes! And you have to work hard no matter how smart you are. There are students who can put in less than 100% effort and get great results, results that another student may get by putting forth their greatest 100% effort. You can end up being very successful but knowing deep down inside that you did not put your all into it.

This is dangerous. You can be successful by objective standards. You are getting good grades, you have a good GPA—or you are successful in your job and everyone is praising you for “a job well done.” But, if you know inside that you have much more to give and haven’t given it your all…it erodes your confidence over time. You end up with a false shell, a veneer of confidence.

SN: It’s hard to have those conversations with oneself, to admit that you project this confidence that is not followed inwardly…. I heard you say, “I was afraid of commitment. If I didn’t commit, then I couldn’t fail.” How are you working through this?

MP:

I am working through it by taking risks. I had to realize that you actually have to risk not being good enough. You have to put yourself out there and make yourself vulnerable. You have to commit to showing up fully and bringing everything you have to your job, school, relationships, friendships, you name it—because if you don’t, you are not creating authentic and meaningful confidence. The reality is, I am just now learning this lesson. If we had talked last year, our interview would have been very different! [Laughter]

Also, we have to find a way to be kind, gentle, and loving to ourselves. Life is a learning process. It’s not like you wake up one day totally successful. There are deeper and deeper levels of self-awareness...deeper and deeper levels of confidence and commitment.

SN: As a professional, you are working to build your own confidence, but in an environment that is exceptionally competitive, how do you find balance?

MP:

Here is the thing—you have to decide whether the career path you are on is actually something you want! [Laughter] Nothing is perfect, right? Given that, you have to at least convince yourself there is a meaningful reason you are there, and then you take what comes with it. If that is a competitive environment, then you accept that and figure how to operate within it.

It is necessary to accept the reality of a situation and then do a “gut check.” Ask internally, “Is this a good place for me?” or “Does this feel consistent with my integrity?” If the answer is yes, then you can manage the competition. At the end of the day, you can’t control the competitive forces: but you can control what you do. This goes back to the idea of confidence. If you are putting in your best effort, if you know you are fully committed, and if you recognize that building confidence is a process—then you take one step at a time. Baby steps…baby steps. Somehow, life ends up supporting you when you commit and show up fully.

SN: How did you discover your unique gifts? Were there moments in your life that contribute to how you view your self?

MP:

I’m still discovering what my unique gifts are. Part of it is really staying connected to what you are passionate about. But, the other way is to actually pay attention to the impact that you have—whether in the classroom, at your job, or with your friends and family. Pay attention.

The other component is achieved by asking other people: What do they think? What do they observe? Sometimes we are too close to see clearly. Or maybe we are too hard on ourselves, and we have a hard time acknowledging our positive qualities. Having friends, family, or mentors who can provide perspective can be helpful. Then you build that into your observation moving forward.

SN: What would you say to young scientists questioning their confidence in pursuing science?

MP: Remember you have everything you need to succeed. Just assume from the start that you have what it takes. Maybe there is knowledge you can add, but in terms of the inherent qualities within your self—you’ve got everything! You have to put those things together and align them to what is unique about and compelling to you. Constantly question yourself: “Why am I in science?” “Why am I taking this major?” Not surprisingly, people start saying, “If I do this then, I’ll have a secure life.” These are practical considerations, but not, “I love science, or I love history.” Remember, passion is a component that should probably factor higher in our equation in terms of the direction we choose.

But we also have to hold space to acknowledge the challenges we face. We are not alone. Our fears are a normal part of the growth process. And, if we are not growing, then we are just static. That feeling of “Eeeeewwwww! This is scary!” or “Wow! This is very uncomfortable!” or “My confidence isn’t as high as I like it to be...”—these are positive signals that you are growing, that you are not taking things for granted or resting on your laurels. This discomfort is actually a sign that you are pushing yourself and showing up fully.

Dr. Penn’s Quick Tips for Building Confidence

• Exercise to release stress.
• Spend time in nature. There are certain places where it is impossible to carry negative feelings for very long!
• Have a support network of people who make you feel good about yourself in a truly meaningful and genuine way.
• Make the commitment to show up and bring your best.
• Meditate.
• Keep a success log. I learned from my mom about keeping a log of all the great things you do. If you do that long enough, you can go back and remind yourself how wonderful you are. She called it a success log, and even now at work, I have an email folder that I call my success log. When I get positive feedback from my colleagues, my managers, my VP—I tuck it away
• Find a way to be of service of to someone else. It can help you get out of a funk, because it shifts the focus from you.

Related Resources

View full edition of the Summer/Fall 2011 SACNAS News